Falmouth Town Meeting Members Nix Turbine Shutdown
Falmouth town meeting members rejected a measure that would have shut down the town’s embattled wind turbines at Thursday’s town meeting.
Town meeting members voted 101-73 against an article that would have shut down the town’s turbines, Wind One and Wind Two, according to the Cape Cod Times. The turbines will continue to operate between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m.
Residents have long complained the turbines cause negative health effects like headaches and depression.
Town meeting members also rejected a measure that would have required the town to notify residents if the water department found possible contamination in the water supply. Right now officials are only required to notify the state until the contamination is confirmed.
What do you think of Thursday’s vote? Tell us in the comments below.
Doris Pinhack
10:29 am on Friday, November 16, 2012
Typical Falmouth Town Members taking care of only themselves. They don't care about the turbines hurting anyone as long as they are not impacted, likewise the water problems. They will know about it and make adjustments long before the rest of us are told so we too can protect our families. The last time we had a major water problem we were told after the fact that a member of the committee had been using bottle water for some time because they knew of the problem.
Sara Mannal
10:45 am on Friday, November 16, 2012
Doris, Falmouth is the only town on the Cape that has town meeting members. I have always wondered if some of these votes would have different outcomes if all residents could cast a vote. Do you think it makes any difference?
Malcolm Donald
11:18 am on Friday, November 16, 2012
Money is more important than health! .... obviously.
Sara Mannal
11:28 am on Friday, November 16, 2012
What's the next step for you now Malcolm? Will opponents to Wind One and Wind Two continue to fight to get the turbines shut down?
Marshall Rosenthal
11:50 am on Friday, November 16, 2012
You don't have to live in Falmouth to see what is happenning. The Town Meeting members are only too willing to throw people like Malcom and his neighbors under the bus, rather than face the fact that thet were hoodwinked into allowing the windturbines in and are now being extorted into running them to pay the crazy loans they signed for. Kepp up the good fight, Malcom, et al.
Barbara Durkin
12:38 pm on Friday, November 16, 2012
Why should a Town Meeting vote dismiss a public safety and health threat?
Massachusetts communities are conducting human experiments by installing industrial machinery near residents, schools, and where people congregate. Zoning usually prevents and protects citizens from exposure to excessive noise and adverse health impacts by designation of allowable uses, residential, business, or industry.
Governor Deval Patrick is again expected to attempt to silence citizens by the Wind Bill that dismantles local control, that would effectively increase the number of people being made sick, and or driven out of their homes, and burden citizens with court costs for remedy, or direct victims to appeal to those appointed by Gov. Deval Patrick, like the Energy Facilities Siting Board.
Democratic and Republican Senators backed by House leaders in VT are pushing for a three year moratorium on wind energy. Opposition to wind energy is growing in Vermont due to citizens actual exposure to this industry. A recent demonstration with an estimated 200 protesters opposed to industrial wind projects happened at the State House in Montpelier. http://vtdigger.org/2012/10/12/protestors-throng-to-statehouse-lawn-to-oppose-industrial-wind/
Keep up the good fight, Malcom et al. To the rest, Do unto others...
Marie Jane
2:09 pm on Friday, November 16, 2012
What is wrong here?
"Taking exception to comments that equated alleged negative health effects caused by the turbines to torture and human rights violations, planning board member Richard Latimer spoke out against the rhetoric."When you get to that level of hyperbole you get to questioning how much of this is hysteria and how much is really true?" Latimer said."
If this attributed to you is so, Mr. Latimer, perhaps it is time to step down.I find it impossible to believe that an opinion of people suffering the ill effects of carelessly placed industrial wind turbines would be spoken of as being hyperbole and hysteria. How disrespectful. Do you and those who voted against turning the turbines off not understand the degree of frustration that has been reached to make intelligent people appear to be hysterical. When you place a 62-ton machine, 50 stories tall, eminating noise and vibrations too close to homes because you and the town leaders did not do your homework and know BEFORE installation what "too close" meant, you/they essentially victimized residents of the community; it is your fault, not their's. And, as long as the MACHINES continue to run, these people are being treated inhumanely. Do what is right now. Stop the machines. Implement a moratorium. Perform the tests necessary to know beyond doubt what safe distances for industrial wind turbines (machines) from residential areas is.
Rich Latimer
7:52 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Marie Jane -
What is truly, truly "disrespectful" is people like Dave Moriarty going around claiming that the wind turbine issue here in Falmouth is a matter of "human rights." That demeans the real degadation and hopelessness of real victims of human rights violations that have occurred both here and abroad, things like African slavery here in the southern U.S., tthe Holocaust in Nazi Germany, the massive extermination of Native Americans by the U..S. Cavalry, the degradation of women in Afghanistan and other Moslem nations, the Nigerian military's use of assassination, rape, torture, etc. to quash political opposition, and the list goes on. To mention the wind turbines on Thos. Landers Road as an issue of "human rights" against this background is actually much worse than hyperbole, it is dishonest and disrespectful of the real suffering others have had to endure.
The issue on Thomas Landers Road is a matter of property rights and to some extent public health, period! It is a legal and political issue in which the purported victims have the kinds of redress that is denied to real human rights victims. The abutters on Thomas Landers Road have the right to make their case to Town Meeting without fear of being murdered in the night or thrown in jail. And if they don't get what they want, they can sue. That's called due process of law, something that real human rights victims never get.
Blowin Smoke
4:54 pm on Friday, November 16, 2012
Apart from hype & hysteria, the FACT is wind turbines simply don’t hurt people. But they provide local and global benefits by making money for the Town, and by reducing carbon emissions and pollution. A few individuals hysterically attack the turbines, but their shifty arguments have again failed to convince Falmouth’sTown Meeting. The real threat is climate change – just ask the folks who were mauled by Sandy or Katrina.
This article by a professor of public health is worth reading:
http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/wind-turbine-syndrome-mass-hysteria-21st-century
Marie Jane
6:55 pm on Friday, November 16, 2012
Simon Chapman; heavy on smoker issues a bit light weight on noise and industrial wind turbines and the industrial wind turbine agenda. Can you state a few examples of the global benefits and the amount of money any particular town is making (not developer promised, but cold, hard cash.
mark cool
7:58 am on Saturday, November 17, 2012
The FACTS - the "Wind Turbine Health Impact Study: Report of Independent Expert Panel," January 2012, prepared for the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection and the Massachusetts Department of Public Health cites five peer-reviewed studies, upon which it relies. Those studies are:
• Pedersen and Waye, "Perception and Annoyance Due to Wind Turbine Noise: A Dose—Response Relationship," Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, December 2004
• Pedersen and Waye, "Wind turbine noise, annoyance and self-reported health and well-being in different living environments," Occupational and Environmental Medicine, March 2007
• Pedersen and Larsman, "The impact of visual factors on noise annoyance among people living in the vicinity of wind turbines," Journal of Environmental Psychology, 2008
• Pedersen, van den Berg, Bakker & Bouma, "Response to noise from modern wind farms in The Netherlands", Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, 2009
• Shepherd, D., McBride, D., Welch, D., Dirks, K. N., & Hill, E. M., "Evaluating the impact of wind turbine noise on health-related quality of life", Noise Health, 2011.
These studies all found that industrial wind turbine (IWT) noise contributes to sleep disorders and diseases associated with the serious adverse responses to the low frequency impulses (infrasound) generated by the IWTs.
mark cool
8:00 am on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Second, WHY would other countries and some U.S. states impose setbacks of 4500 feet or more if there are no FACTS substantiating that the noise from industrial turbines is sufficiently harmful to health. Examples:
• Rural Oregon has set the minimum setback to be 2 miles.
• Victoria and New South Wales, NZ have set the minimum setback to be 2 km (1.25 miles).
• In a settlement reached in a wind turbine dispute in Fayette County, Pennsylvania, the setback was set at 6,000-foot (1.1 mile).
• "Location, Location, Location: An investigation into wind farms and noise by the UK Noise Association (UKNA)" finds an appropriate setback to be 1 to 1.5 mile setback (7,900 ft).
• "Recommendations on the Siting of Wind Farms in the Vicinity of Eskdalemuir, Scotland (2005)" finds an appropriate setback to be 10 km (6.2 mile or 32,730 ft).
• Beech Ridge Wind Farm (West Virginia) has a 1 to 4 mile setback.
Many more exist, in excess of 4,500 feet.
BLOWIN SMOKE - if you’re going to make public statements, get their facts straight.
David KEnt
5:37 pm on Friday, November 16, 2012
This all comes down to a single question: Do you believe the neighbors who are objecting to the turbines?
Posters Doris and Marshall believe them so they can’t understand how Town Meeting members could vote to keep the turbines operational. Poster Blowin Smokes doesn’t believe the neighbors so he defends the turbines.
For a long time, I didn’t believe the neighbors. Coming off the Cape Wind experience, I’d seen an unending train of baseless attacks by opponents. I assumed that the same was happening regarding Falmouth’s land based turbines. But after listening to the neighbors in Falmouth and meeting a couple, I changed my mind. I can’t support this change of mind with the studies and data that I normally like to rely upon because most of that argues AGAINST the neighbors.
But I still believe the neighbors. And so I believe that we must move the turbines or turn them off and take the financial hit. I also believe that this has shown that turbines the size of Falmouth’s don’t belong in suburban areas.
Rich Latimer
8:02 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Dave, buddy-
When the abutters, fronted by folks like Dave Moriarty, start crying about "human rights," that tells me that their legitimate complaints are being magnified by hysteria. They have a legitimate beef about the size of the turbines on T. Landers Rd., where the initial proposal was for much smaller ones. They surely have the right to be angry about that, and prolonged, unresolved anger leads to health issues like sleeplessness, increased BP, magnification of symptoms, hypersensitify to sound stimuli, etc. There are some real issues there, but they are not "human rights" issues and to raise that cry undermines their credibility.
I disagree with you as to the two options you cite. Shutting them down will cost a lot of money and will squander the money already spent. Moving them, if there were another suitable location would cost millins more increasing the cost of producing the energy. The third option is to negotiate buyouts for people who don't want to live next to the turbines and eminent domain takings for people who object but won't negotiate. That will also cost millions, but us taxpayers will then get additional value back, i.e. the land to create a buffer zone around the turbines and to use for photovoltaic installations and/or affordable housing.
David KEnt
3:55 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Rich,
As I was telling a rather stubborn friend of mine this morning:
It’s POSSIBLE that anger has caused the medical complaints of the neighbors (or “perceived” complaints if anger is indeed their source). But you’re speculating there. There’s no solid reason to believe that anger/resentment is at the root of the neighbors’ complaints. Since there’s no evidence of that cause, we can’t use it to make policy.
I hear you that buying the homes close to the turbines is a 3rd option. You mentioned eminent domain: That would be necessary because many of the neighbors would resist moving. If someone came to me and said I had to sell my home and move I’d be upset beyond belief. So, I’m not sure I would support this idea. Beyond that, whenever society gets into eminent domain it's important to consider "cost vs. benefit". Interstate highways and municipal airports, for instance, had high benefits to justify the cost of eminent domain takings. I don't see anything like that benefit here: The benefit of the 2 turbines aren't great enough, in my mind, to justify a bunch of eminent domain home takings.
But my main point is that I believe the neighbors when they say that they’re suffering. So, I can’t support a town policy that – for whatever reason, including finances – continues to inflict that suffering.
Barbara Durkin
6:08 pm on Friday, November 16, 2012
Where is the disclosure by the Patrick Administration appointed green policy Advisor, First Wind CEO Paul Gaynor? The suffering of Mass residents could and should have been avoided.
PETER S. KELLEY, ESQ.ATTORNEY FOR PLAINTIFFS Filed suit: "Mars Hill residents' suit against First Wind et al." (clip)
13. When all of the turbines became operational for the first time in late March 2007, it became immediately obvious to the Plaintiffs that the noise from the turbines was invasive and caused them loss of enjoyment of life, loss of peace and quiet, loss of their full use of their home and land. Some Plaintiffs required medical treatment and counseling. Many have, and continue to, lose sleep, suffer headaches, suffer considerable stress, and other physical and emotional ailments..."
http://www.wind-watch.org/documents/mars-hill-residents-suit-against-first-wind-et-al/
The Union Leader
April 6, 2009
"...First Wind president and CEO Paul Gaynor said the company would do a better job in the future about letting local residents know what to expect from wind farms."
"I know there was an expectation (in Mars Hill) about what these were going to
sound like," Gaynor told the Daily News. "These are big structures and they do
make sound."
Shortly after Gaynor spoke to the Maine newspaper, the firm changed its name to
First Wind. It was formerly known as Global Winds Harvest/UPC."
http://www.the-leader.com/homepage/x1931060317
David KEnt
3:40 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Barbara,
This conversation is quite specific: It's about our turbines here in Falmouth. So, your typical "cut and paste" approach on completely unrelated issues isn't helpful. In fact it detracts from the conversation.
If you don't have anything to say about the Falmouth turbines, why don't you take the cutting and pasting elsewhere.
mark cool
7:33 am on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Told to "see" this problem without emotion, hyperbole or hysterics, by some at town meeting, I will comply. My thought about this debacle is best illustrated by the humorist S.L. Clemens ~ “Ours is a useful trade, a worthy calling. With all its lightness and frivolity; it has one serious purpose, one aim, one specialty: the deriding of shams—the exposure of pretentious falsities, the laughing of stupid superstitions out of existence. And that whoso is, by instinct, engaged in this sort of warfare is the natural enemy of royalties, nobilities, privileges and all kindred swindles and the natural friend of human rights and human liberties.”
I would only add... I think, after town meeting, the 'serious purpose' continues!
Marie Jane
10:18 am on Saturday, November 17, 2012
The following the stuff horror movies and nightmares are made from. BUT, in this case, people are living it. This is a long article,hopefully you will all take the time to read it regardless of which side of the Industrial Wind Turbine Agenda you are. A portion of the article appears below and the link to it. Take heed, city and town fathers, our caretakers.
February 09, 2012
Blown Away Big Wind’s Inconvenient Truth
by ALAN FARAGO
The installation of wind turbines too close to houses and personal property is a major headache for the wind power industry, but headache scarcely begins to describe their impact to nearby property owners and neighbors. My property and home are scarcely three quarters of a mile from a three 1.5 megawatt turbine wind farm that went online in November 2009 with blades stretching nearly 400 feet into the air.
Large scale wind turbines represent a tiny and lucrative—thanks to federal tax incentives—corner of the electric power industry. By siting large turbine facilities close to population centers, the industry hopes to minimize the cost of expensive new transmission lines, but it faces a whirlwind of resistance from citizens objecting to the destruction of mountains, seascapes, wilderness areas, and natural quiet.
Opponents argue that wind power is a bad deal for everyone but shareholders who use subsidies to prop up an industry that is otherwise not economically viable..
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/09/big-winds-inconvenient-truth/
Dana Mortimer
4:39 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Time to do away with the town meeting members in total.
Blowin Smoke
5:18 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Do you know where most of your electricity comes from? Brayton Point is, according to EPA, the largest emitter of greenhouse gases AND toxic chemicals, in MA. Concerns about wind are frivolous by comparison.
http://www.heraldnews.com/news/x58613903/EPA-Brayton-Point-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-than-any-power-plant-in-New-England?zc_p=1
Marie Jane
7:33 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Your point?
Rich Latimer
8:11 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Hi, Blowin-
There are none so blind as those who will not see, e.g. Marie Jane who pretends not to understand how burning fossil fuels has been a world class catastrophe, not only with worldwide health effects that make "wind turbine syndrome" look like a runny nose, but massive climate change that has wrought widespread ecological disaster, most recently the devastation of New York and New Jersey by Hurricane Sandy. The scientific consensus on that is solid, that such high potency storms are the result of rising global temperatures, evidenced by glacial melting and shrinking of the polar ice caps. But Marie Jane can't see that, because it doesn't fit into her hysterical scenario about Town Meeting violating her "human rights" by not shutting down the wind turbines on Thos. Landers Road.
Marie Jane
8:32 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
No pretense. The issue is the Industrial Wind Turbine Agenda. Coal happened. We now know better. All the more reason to do the right thing when it comes to placement of the industrial wind turbine and that is the only issue. Safe distance from people (humans) on Any Road, U.S.A.
February 09, 2012
Blown Away Big Wind’s Inconvenient Truth
by ALAN FARAGO
In its brutal outline, regulating noise from wind turbines illustrates the struggle of our times: whether government regulation can protect public health, or, whether private industry should be left alone to do a better job, whether or not it can demonstrate the results. Industry responds by hiding in the deep weeds of “complexity” and “disagreement with interpreting facts”. They buy time for an industry desperate to keep federal subsidies flowing; subsidies set to expire at the end of 2012. The wind power industry hopes Congress and the White House will ignore the fact that people, property values, and natural quiet are collateral damage to popular enthusiasms whose economics have failed to pan out.
We used to say with pride, “this couldn’t happen in the United States”. But wherever the costs of pollution are unallocated, it happens every day the wind blows.
Alan Farago is a writer living in Coral Gables, Florida and president of Friends of the Everglades. His website is alanfarago.wordpress.com
Louise G.
12:14 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
By mentioning "massive climate change that has wrought widespread ecological disaster", Mr. Latimer implies that wind turbines help reduce CO2 and thus help alleviate global warming. If CO2 reduction is important to the Town, then why is there no required verification of CO2 from the wind projects? Did the Town simply assume that CO2 savings of consequence would be realized?
David KEnt
5:32 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Louise,
There's no doubt that the Falmouth turbines reduce CO2 generation. The reason is very simple and I am always amazed when people refuse to accept it:
When the turbines generate power, they reduce the power that the Town of Falmouth takes from the grid. Since virtually all of the power on the grid is generated by burning fossil fuels, this means less fossil fuel burning to satisfy Falmouth's needs.
Do you see a problem with that simple logic?
mark cool
8:13 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
The approval of financing of Falmouth’s two turbines by Town Meeting starting in 2007 was, in large part, due to a complete manipulation of the facts—both by keeping some information under wraps, and by directly misinforming people. It was, in fact, Town Meeting members who were tricked into thinking that they had been told the whole truth when they voted to invest great capital on a boondoggle.
Mr. Latimer repeatedly cites, with near religious obsession, the ‘cost’ involved. He, innocently, is taking part in the misinformation. It’s worth noting that the compensation homeowners living near wind turbines are given, and which are being considered by the WTOP, to make up for lost property value, are based on falsified noise calculations—which means that people are, in fact, being cheated from quality of life and health, but also from the full amount they are actually owed.
Corruption is defined as moral decay, and that is precisely what we are witnessing here. The fear, shared by Mr. Latimer and others, has led them to take part in the fraud. The human impacts appear ancillary to jeopardizing the financial cost.
This, and the demonstration by Town Meeting, only adds to the embarrassment. There are a lot of people who have plenty to be ashamed of, but I shouldn’t expect that to change much. Moral scruples aren’t what they use to be.
Rich Latimer
2:12 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Mr. Cool -
Moral decay is surely evident within a group which has admittedly suffered property loss and perhaps some non-lethal injury due to a public works project, but whose members attempt to magnify that into an issue of "human rights." That shows a lack of perspective and a lack of respect for the real human rights violations that occur in the world today, violations such as midnight arrests, mass killings, etc. which make your problems seem like a runny nose in comparison.
The fact is that real victims of real human rights violations have no recourse, while you do. You can petition government for relief without fear of being murdered or locked away in a dirty jail cell. You can also file a lawsuit for redress, which I believe you have done. That's called due process, which is all you are entitled to, as opposed to the kind of hysterical magnification of the problem you have been led into by the likes of David Moriarty. Mr. Moriarty, not incidentally, is vehemently opposed to wind turbines generally, even those proposed to be built five miles out into Nantucket Sound where there will be no intractable injuries from "wind turbine syndrome" except, perhaps, to petroleum corporation profits in the long run.
As a Town Meeting member I will support a buy-out of your property, and others in the area, for "just compensation" which is all that is required by due process under the Fifth Amendment.
David KEnt
4:07 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
You've got some serious accusations in that last post Mark. Some would seem to go to peoples' motives back during the approval process. Divining peoples' motives is exceedingly difficult so such accusations are very hard to make. Some of these accusations seem shaky to me. Do you have evidence to back them up?
1. "Complete manipulation of the facts" during the approval process.
2. " keeping some information under wraps" during approval.
3. Tricked Town Meeting during approval.
4. "Falsified noise calculations" in the WTOP
5. Ongoing fraud
Those are strong accusations Mark. I hope you can back them up.
Blowin Smoke
10:05 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Mr. Cool's comments, as usual, are long on hysteria and accusation, but so short on facts and specifics. He mentions "lost property value" and this provides a glimpse of the hidden agendas that are behind the shifty tales of mysterious health problems. Ironically, the only property value decrease (apart from a nationwide real estate slump!) is the direct result of hyperbole from a handful of extremists.
David KEnt
10:19 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Yeah Blowin, Mark Cool stuck his neck out in one of his posts here with the accusations. Some went to peoples' motives: A very hard thing to divine.
I hope Mark responds telling us how he supports those accusations.
GERARD KELLEY
2:21 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
I don't live near a turbine but think that the poor judgement of buying used equipment and paying big dollars for installation either with a faulty environmental impact study or some defect that has the noise and vibration issues I don't read as problems elsewhere has town officials in a bind.
I do drink the water though at home and eating out. I'd like to know why the town meeting opposed notification!? Do we need a high body count before Falmouth realizes that error on the side of caution is no error at all.
Patch, what were the arguments in favor of secrecy when water is contaminated ? Water should have been the lead here.
Marie Jane
4:55 pm on Sunday, November 18, 2012
A house divided.And,the Industrial Wind Turbine Agenda is a divide and conquer issue.
David EKent,voice of reason,the Barbara's of the world,and the Marie-Jane's are compelled to venture beyond to get a whole picture perspective. The Falmouth issue is not just a Falmouth issue, it is consistent with what appears to be a world wide agenda.Familiar with Aruba,tiny Aruba,which has more sunny days than days in the year(I know,not possible)why are they fighting the same battle.No solar, just IWTs everywhere."Think global, act locally",I am a firm believer.Once you start connecting the dots, this image changes.So, it may help observe the Falmouth issue on a grander scale.Compare the similarities and ask why.
One of the only person not focused on Falmouth locally and globally is Mr.Latimer. He has yet to share any of his insight from pre to post Industrial Wind Turbine Agenda coming to Falmouth Town. What sort of remark is this: "You can also file a lawsuit for redress, which I believe you have done. That's called due process, which is all you are entitled to." If handled properly to begin with "lawsuit" and "redress" and "entitlement" to such would not be part of this. So, the vicitimized have been driven to their last resort option. Smacks of human rights to me. They have had home, hearth, quality of life taken from them. So, I like David, can’t support a town policy that,for whatever reason,including finances,continues to inflict that suffering." (Inhumane treatment.)
Rich Goulart
9:56 am on Monday, November 19, 2012
Did anyone here that's objecting to the town meeting vote watch the town meeting.There were 3 articles all dealing with the wind turbines.All 3 were directly related.One of the articles was an AGREEMENT between the neighbors and the selectmen on the hours the turbines were to run.The selectman need to fix and i mean immediately fix the start up time and shut down time of the turbines but you cannot have an agreement with the selectman and then throw in another article to shut them down.With that said i agree with the people being affected that the town needs to by spring town meeting have an ANSWER as to what we're going to do with the turbines. It's been too long.No tax payer or citizen of the town should have ill health affects because of a business decision made by the town leaders.Also anyone complaining about our town meeting form of government should attend a town meeting in another town of comparible size and see how you like emotions and a "stacked vote " works.
Rich Latimer
4:54 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Rich
I agree with you about how well Falmouth TM works compared with other towns. That is especially true vs. Barnstable where a small group of city councillors can secretly take thousands of dollars under the table from a Bill Koch front group to finance a friviolous lawsuit against offshore wind, doing so in the name of the Town as a whole. At Falmouth TM we do everything out in the open, discussed right there on the floor with TV cameras rolling, and majority rules -not bribe money.
I also agree we have to get a handlle on the present problems, one past and one future. The future problem is how to prevent more inappropriate turbin sitings, which is what the PB's failed Article 3 would do. We will be presenting something similar in April, tweaked a bit, and it will have to be passed then or we automatically revert to the old by-law which allowed the turbines to be built on T Landers Road.
Re. that past problem, we either tear the turbines down at great additional cost while squandering the money already spent and no energy boost. Since moving the turbines is off the table due to practical issues, then the only rational alternative is to buy out the folks who object for fair value. That will result in getting addiitional value for the money we spent, and the properties can be used for a buffer zone around the turbines, with solar installations to increase the amount of green energy we get for our money.
David KEnt
10:16 pm on Monday, November 19, 2012
Rich,
After thinking about it for awhile, I don't think that buying the neighbors' homes is practical:
1st, many of the objecting neighbors won't want to move. I can see why: They love their homes and plan to live there indefinitely. Many for the reset of their lives.
2nd, taking homes via eminent domain is impractical politically. If we think that the neighbors are making a stink now, imagine what will happen if we force people out of their homes! I don't thing the town will support that.
I didn't know that moving the turbines was off the table due to practicality. When and how was that decision made?
Rich Latimer
10:50 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Dave-
Think some more. Some "neighbors" will always complain no matter what, because they are so deep into the victim syndrome as evidenced by their hysterical claims about "human rights." Even if we tear down the two Town turbines and pass a new by-law, the privately owned Webb turbine will remain as a prior non-conforming use, and they will still complain about "wind turbine syndrome" ad nauseam ad infinitum, as victims who cherish their grievances always do.
Also, moving the turbines is out because the only open space they could be moved to far enough away from Falmouth residences is too close to Base residences, plus there are real FAA issues concerning air traffic safety there -as opposed to the bogus issues being raised about Cape Wind..
The only realistic option that gets us additional value back for the millions that will have to be spent in any case, plus keeping the benefit of our investment so far, is to
buy or take surrounding properties in order to create both a buffer zone and provide land for additional clean energy installations such as large-scale solar panels. Combine that with an emerging state-of-the-art liquid battery facility, and the Town might come damned close to energy independence.
mark cool
11:45 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
I’m curious whether the level interest will match the level of open mindedness. The pitch made at town meetings -TM (pre-construction) dealt only with the potential business model (e.g., ownership structure) for development of the project. In other words, the proposed sales pitch addressed only the kind of $ return was to be expected from the investment. This all assumed and was understood by TM, that all other necessary examinations had been complete and satisfied.
Falmouth’s Vestas V-82 is reported, by the manufacturer, having a specified sound power level of 103 dB(A) at the hub. From which the estimated maximum noise impact reported by the HMMH Falmouth turbine specific model (implemented only after construction/operation due to residents complaints) theorized the V-82 producing a sound level of 40 dB(A) at 1,300 feet. The KEMA feasibility report (2005), using a GE 1.5 MW and a GE 2.5 MW, estimated maximum impact at 42 to 44 dB (A) at the property line of residences to the west or the south. The real data complied by Ma DEP this past Feb.-Mar, representing a more accurate impact potential, revealed Wind 1 produced a sound level of 50 dB(A) 1,320 feet.
What are the implications? Given that the night ambient dB(A) level is 29 in the area. (this level documented only after - no pre-construction tests exist - a normal protocol typically conducted). Making Wind 1 out of compliance (Ma DEP guidelines) anytime the same variables from the sampling exist.
mark cool
11:46 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Following the model, doubling the distance from Wind 1 would reduce the sound level by 6 dB(A). At 2,640 feet the sound level is projected to be 44 dB(A). At 5,280 feet that sound level drops to 38 dB(A). Remember.. the average documented night ambient level - 29 dB(A).
In other words, what was predicted and what actually exists aren’t remotely close. Had a full vetting of this information been conducted, do you think it conceivable TM would have voted to approve the financing of our Titanic-like business model? Do you?
“TRICKERY” ? “MANIPULATION OF FACTS”? “CONCEALING INFORMATION”?
I agree with David in that it is difficult to access peoples' motives back during the approval process. It is interesting, however, that the Green Communities Act (2008) and the Governor’s wind energy target (2000MW by 2020) had received considerable marketing force leading to ’07 & ’08 town meetings.
David KEnt
3:54 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Mark,
I just think that you and others should be very circumspect about throwing accusations around like "manipulating facts", "keeping information under wraps" and "directly misinforming people". Those are SERIOUS accusations that one had better have solid evidence of.
There are perfectly good explanations for what has transpired that don't involved malfeasance in any way. The most simple answer is that well meaning people working in good faith just plain messed up.
In the big picture, here's probably what happened: Like about 99% of people generally, the people working on the project in town government NEVER IMAGINED that a wind turbine could cause enough noise to affect neighbors. Perhaps they were assured by misleading information from the vendor. Perhaps they barely looking into sound. In hindsight, it's clear that enough vetting of sound was not done. But that was very likely a mistake made by good people.
Now, if you know for a fact that that is not true then let's hear what you know to support your accusations. Otherwise, I'd suggest lowering the rhetoric.
mark cool
11:49 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
As for falsified noise calculations in the WTOP, I would suggest going to tonight's meeting - 6:30 Library. Watch for yourselves.
Next I'll address the on going fraud.
Marie Jane
11:54 am on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Well Rich Latimer, you certainly are consistent.You are a name caller.And, based on the following statement, you bring absolutely nothing to the table: "Also, moving the turbines is out because the only open space they could be moved to far enough away from Falmouth residences is too close to Base residences, plus there are real FAA issues concerning air traffic safety there -as opposed to the bogus issues being raised about Cape Wind." Perhaps, you will take the time to explain what "too close to Base residences" means. Numbers, Rich Latimer, what are the numbers? How close is "too close"? Latest information indicates that in some circumstances, a mile away, may not be far enough away. And, the government taking homes away from people who have paid, dearly, and protected, dearly, their property rights. You know, the stuff that wars are endured for; you will just "buy them out"? You spent millions on technology that has, in recent history, been questioned in proximity to residences (did you question "too close" then?); you spent millions on old warehoused wind turbines (did you question "money well spent then"?). You victimized and now those you have victimized are "hysterical", they have "bogus issues". "Value back" should have been questioned BEFORE you got it wrong.
mark cool
5:58 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
On the subject of on going fraud, we were witness to the town manager addressing the Wind 1 - MA DEP night time noise report exceedance. Mr. Suso explained that the evidence indicated that the infraction happened only at one property, only between a 11:30 PM and 4 AM and the identified property with the exceedance was the only one of the 5 sampled to have been out of compliance.
The message conveyed by Mr. Suso was pleading a case to focus only on that particular property, for only that specified time. The echo of the message seemed familiar to a theme too often heard lately, “These Wind Turbine Public Works projects are simply too BIG to fail.”
Gleaning the actual truth from the study and subsequent report, the MA DEP examined 5 properties for 5 nights (over the course of 4 months during which strong meteorological data is indicative of the volume of complaints). The more confident conclusion (supported by DEP) that should have been presented is that a pronounce probability exists, given variables not unique to weather and wind character of that season, to deduce that exceedances would likely occur at properties not tested. It seems nearsightedly premature and unscientific to limit this sample response to only a single property and a set duration of time, given the randomness and volatility of weather and wind.
David KEnt
6:51 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Mark,
I just checked my notes on the MassDEP study of last May and found that Mr. Susa's words are 100% correct. Here’s what I wrote for my blog on Cape Wind last May:
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2012/05/16/massdep-finds-unacceptable-sound-from-fa-1?blog=247
That blog contains the data table from the study and it shows that five homes WERE tested and only one was over the State 10 dB threshold. So I ask: Where’s the fraud?
Now you go on to interpret that study and, in fact, I agree with some of your conclusions. For instance, other properties probably WOULD have shown sound levels above 10 dB. But that does not justify you accusing Susa of fraud.
By the way, the fact that one home had sound levels over 10 dB is enough to conclude that the turbine create too much noise. And that's what I said in my blog. So if Mr. Susa was trying to argue that "4 out of 5 ain't bad", he's wrong. He may be spinning things in his direction some. But he's not a fraud.
Blowin Smoke
2:35 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
The DEP noise exceedance was 1.5 dB over allowed level, with a measurement error of +/- 1 dB. That's truly MARGINAL. And the loudest sound measured (50.5 dB) is comparable to a refrigerator running. This fridge is outside in the yard. At ONE house. And only in the wee hours. As if that's not weird enough... DEP did not follow their own measurement protocol, which required measurements between 1-4 AM. They started well before 1 AM, so higher ambient noise levels exaggerate the "impact" measurements. And DEP let 1-2 hours pass between off and on measurements, while standard practice requires much less time (like consecutive 10 minute on/off periods). The DEP study is badly flawed. There would be no exceedance if DEP had followed their own protocol.
mark cool
5:58 pm on Tuesday, November 20, 2012
Fraud? Deceit?
Truly alarming is that this is just the latest example of one more town decision maker trying to mislead and misrepresent because “these Wind Turbine projects are too BIG to fail.”
mark cool
10:29 am on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
David,
Mr. Suso is trying to do a good job. It is no easy task filling in as manager in a town with so much controversy. I would say my first hand experience, both as an effected resident and as a citizen of our local government, allows me a clearer understanding of the general situation. I respect your level-headedness yet the emotion my and my neighbors have displayed, is forged from parents, husbands and wives trying to defend a basic elementary necessities.
I don't know the man, nor did I mean to imply that he is a fraud. However, his actions (spinning things in his direction - as you say), given the known facts, are best characterized as a continuation of fraudulent behavior.
David KEnt
5:27 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Mark,
It’s easy for me, sitting in my home on the other side of town with nary a wind turbine in sight, to make the following overall point: That some of the language of the turbine neighbors is over the top. I understand that.
At the same time, I wonder if over the top language HURTS your side in the public relations battle.
As you can tell from my comments to you in this thread, some of your accusations bothered me. They seemed to go too far. Luckily, I’ve spent a decent amount of time learning about the turbine situation and have developed a strong enough opinion (in your direction, of course) that I’m not shaken from my opinion by that language.
But I wonder about the effect on the average Falmouth resident. Or, far more importantly, on the average Town Meeting member. I worry that such people may be put off by over the top language, that this tends to make them oppose you, and that it might make some more likely to vote against you.
Of course, what are people like you to do if temperate language doesn’t get the job done? Perhaps you’ve been forced to raise the verbal heat.
In any case, this has been what I’ve been getting at as I’ve objected to your accusations in this thread.
mark cool
5:11 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
BLOWIN - "1.5 dB over allowed level".. enough said on that topic.
You seem to have your appliances confused. Not a refrig - more like a boot in the dryer. Outside or in, the constant bumping and banging is a huge problem. You miss the scientific deduction process with the "at ONE house"point. The logical assumption would be that that ONE house serves as ONE sample of what is likely happening at properties not tested by DEP.
All the memos and copies of correspondence (between principals of the issue), as well as the report that I've read, state the "testing" began after 1 AM (they did set up equipment before midnight).
It sounds like you'll only praise the testing protocol and test results if it suits you. Remind me - Who's the alleged hysteric?
Marie Jane
8:30 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Re David KEnt, 5:27 p.m., November 21, 2012
O.k. This pies are finished, table set. Have been pondering your advice/observation of the folks on the "other side of town". Quite interesting. It is amazing how civil people can reach the lowest depths; re-read some stuff (testimony from May) and these people did not sound so over the top. How many ways can you say I hurt. How many ways can you say: "Are you listening". How many ways can you reach out. How many times can a voice fall on deaf ears. What is the next step? It is not so much "verbal" heat as it is "base verbal" heat. Perhaps civility does not do the trick; let us hit below the belt. And, there, you reach civil people who on their best day cannot relate to raw emotion, raw passion. Truly the space between a rock and a hard place. Add to that the name calling "town fathers" and the, and, I am not certain what you call a pardon from an insane asylum for Thanksgiving and Christmas. What do you call that? The turbines should be shut down; a simple solution to an ill conceived plan no matter how well intentioned; it did not work; it was a mistake; it affected the neighbors. To do anything less than right, to do anything less than shut down the cause and do the appropriate research is, once again, a human rights issue, a human experimentation issue.
Blowin Smoke
9:05 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Mr. Cool - it's not about "praise" for the test protocol. As you've stated above, the protocol is to test during 1-4am. But many measurements are well before 1am, when higher ambient levels inflate the impact measurements. The raw data, and test protocol, are listed in report appendices. Note 211 BS road was the earliest every night, and also the only site of (tiny) exceedances. Not a coincidence. You want strict acceptance of their conclusions -- shouldn't DEP strictly follow their own procedure. Independent expert review says DEP impact measurements were inflated by ~ 3 dB due to sloppy practices. This marginal result, at just one location, and only in the middle of the night, is the sole credible basis for complaints. Much ado about nothing.
David KEnt
8:54 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
I hear you Mary Jane. Especially when you say “How many ways can you say I hurt”. It’s easy for me to criticize the tone of the message from the neighbors since I’m NOT in pain. It’s obviously MUCH harder for those who are suffering.
Still, I think that my point about excessive language is worth considering. I have several friends with whom I regularly meet to discuss politics, current events, history, etc. Among that group there are 3 or 4 people that you’d call “agnostic” on the turbine issue. That is, they don’t live near the turbines, don’t know anyone who does, haven’t studied the issue carefully and thus are reacting to what they hear in the press. Each of these people shakes his head whenever he hears or reads heated language from the neighbors. Words like “torture” and “fraud” make them shake their heads and believe that the neighbors are hysterical. Every time I see this, I wonder if that kind of language is hurting the neighbors’ cause.
Marie Jane
9:26 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
The neighbors are hysterical. I used the term "victim" once and realized they are not victims, but they have been vicitimized. The neighbors are hysterical, because once you have been deemed unreasonable, once your feet have been held to the fire for too long a period of time, once you realize your voice of reason has been interpreted and publicized as a voice ignoring true human rights of people around the world because you are expressing a degree of hurt that you cannot compare with any other type of pain, then one becomes hysterical. I was surprised by the "human rights" comparison, but as I thought about it, there is no other comparison. If that kind of language is hurting them, perhaps the time has come to broadcast loud and clear so that others will hear and read that these people are not hysterical, someone made a huge mistake and they should no longer have to endure the persecution that they have been subjected to. And, the monsters, the white, 62-ton, 50 story machines are going to be shut down until they serve all people equally. If you go back historically and see the twist that has been put on the opponent's side of industrial wind turbine agenda, they have been made to look the fools, when, indeed, they are the ones who did not fall for the fairytale. And, don't you think those who made the mistake or have a motive or agenda as it relates to the industrial wind turbine are not enjoying every painful moment of those victimized and only too willing to name call.
David KEnt
10:04 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
I’m sorry Mary Jane, but at the end of that last comment you’ve provided what may be the MOST over the top statement I’ve ever heard regarding the Falmouth turbines:
“And, don't you think those who made the mistake or have a motive or agenda as it relates to the industrial wind turbine are not enjoying every painful moment of those victimized and only too willing to name call.”
You actually believe that people in Town Hall are “enjoying” the suffering of the neighbors? I certainly hope not because that’s ridiculous. They don’t believe the neighbors? Perhaps. They are overly concerned about the hole that canning the turbines will put in the town budget? Almost certainly. But ENJOYING the suffering?
That’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about.
Marie Jane
10:30 pm on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Hopefully not the "perfect example". Give me the word....when your back is against the wall, and you made a mistake, and you spent the people's money (my and your tax dollars) unwisely and there are people who are hysterical enough to not be believed and those people are being called names publicly and privately and the heat is off you and you appear in contral and sane, but they do not.........what is the word? Relief? That may have been the better word. Relief that they are taking the heat and not you. Scratch "enjoying".
Rich Latimer
8:15 am on Thursday, November 22, 2012
Dave-
Marie Jane surely knows many ways to say "I hurt," and some of them are a valid cause for corrective action by TM. But being the victim of "human rights" abuse is clearly not among those valid reasons. Thos. B. Landers Road is not Soweto, not even close, and the attempt by her, Mr. Cool, Mr. Funfar and Dave Moriarty to make that kind of absurd connection only undermines their credibility with the majority of TM members.
That kind of hyperbolic excess is an indication of hysteria, i.e. the magnification of underlying symptoms. To say that is not "name calling," nor is it libelous as Mr. Cool's remarks about Town officials come close to being. That is a matter of fact.
To call the alleged "wind turbine syndrome" the equivalent of mass murder, concentration camps, midnight assassinations, etc., is like equating a nosebleed with a cerebral hemorrhage, which any M.D. would diagnose as hysteria while applying the medically appropriate remedy for nosebleed. That task, however, is much easier when dealing with a patient who knows she has a nosebleed, not a cerebral hemorrhage, and knows the difference. And that, in fact, was my main point, that an optimal solution to the wind turbine problem can only be achieved if we keep the issue in perspective, and not be led by agents provocateurs like Dave Moriarty into the wilderness of demagogic anti-wind excess.
Marie Jane
9:33 am on Thursday, November 22, 2012
Happy Thanksgiving Day.
You say, "Thos. B. Landers Road is not Soweto, not even close, and the attempt by her, Mr. Cool, Mr. Funfar and Dave Moriarty to make that kind of absurd connection only undermines their credibility with the majority of TM members." AND, "....the alleged "wind turbine syndrome......"
Can you recall, Rich Latimer, when the group had credibility?
Can you recall when you, "....[kept] the issue in perspective,"?
Will you let the group know exactly when they have said "I hurt" in a way that is acceptable to you and say it loud enough for them to know you heard them?
David KEnt
12:00 pm on Thursday, November 22, 2012
Rich,
Even though I reacted almost violently to Mary Jane’s recent characterization of the attitudes of Town Hall to the plight of the turbine neighbors, I’m afraid that I’ve gotta side with her regarding your latest post. Your “nose bleed to cerebral hemorrhage” and “Soweto” analogies are badly flawed for 2 reasons:
1st they assume that the neighbors are experiencing no significant effects from the turbines and it ridicules them for saying that they are suffering. Of course, this is a matter of opinion. I believe that the neighbors are suffering and you don’t. But ridiculing an opponent is seldom helpful.
2nd – and much more importantly – they represent the SAME KIND of excessive language that you and I have been accusing the neighbors of using. I agree with you that the neighbors’ language is overheated and very likely self defeating. But, regarding your last comment, my father would have said to you: “Two wrongs don’t make a right”. You’ve returned the excessive language favor and IN SPADES.
Frankly, if that comment is typical of the kind of verbal punishment that they’ve been taking from their opponents, I don’t wonder that Mary Jane’s and Mark’s language has gotten overheated.
Rich Latimer
9:09 pm on Thursday, November 22, 2012
Dave -
You are clearly missing the most important point here. Besides the fact that the degree of suffering the neighbors may experience pales to a nosebleed beside the hemorrhage of suffering experienced in places like Soweto, the real human rights victims there as well as real victims world wide live with absolutely no recourse. If they even try to protest they are jailed, tortured and murdered to set an example for others. That is what the human rights movement is about, to call attention to class based or partisan abuses of power that leave the victims with no recourse.
The people of T.B. Landers road stand in sharp contrast to that. They have no fear of arrest, torture and murder for protesting the less severe conditions they are living under as compared with places like Soweto. They have free speech, they have the right to petition and they have the right to file lawsuits, all of which they have done.
What they do not have is the right to bully and demagogue the Planning Board or Town Meeting to do what they want without considering all the options and without considering which option is optimal in the interest of the public as a whole. I don't question that they have a valid issue of property rights, and some may be suffering physical ailments, but simply removing the turbines as they demand is not the optimal solution in the interest of all Falmouth taxpayers.
mark cool
1:52 pm on Thursday, November 22, 2012
I think, from reading, we can all agree, a problem exists. The level of which seems to have taken the conversation from the original message. That original message is that a problem exists.
Some might think the problem minor, while others think the problem is paramount in their lives. But no matter the position, there still remains the problem with the residents around the wind turbines. The problem won’t go away by extremism or believing or not believing. No. The solution can only come from some sort of “fix”.
The “fix”, respectful of all opinions, must be the focus. If this is the angle chosen, we then may regain a respect for, and a sense of community for all. People just want what is best for themselves and for their community. At this point, speaking personally, this situation is not best for me, my family and neighbors. And with the curtailments in place (trying to appease neighbors), it is questionable whether this current fix is best for the community - in a fiscal sense (a wind energy budget “in the red” liability).
As soon as we get over assessing the levels and the exaggeration of impact from both sides, we, as a community, will be better suited to take the appropriate and acceptable actions to make both community, as well as those victimized, whole. I believe this is the intent of the WTOP, from which better wind turbine bylaw structure might be derived.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.. we are a community.. let us not forget!
mark cool
7:53 am on Friday, November 23, 2012
The idea that a minority of people are subjected to real and perceived harms, that they suffer disproportionately from rest of the community, has spawned address of human rights and justice. Although legal actions, based on tort and constitutional law, are tactics suggested by Mr. Latimer, many victimized residents are skeptical about the effectiveness of litigation. That course of action is costly and time consuming, as Mr. Latimer is well aware. And, more important, the legal system has yet to provide adequate relief in seeking redress from the continued harm imposed.
The mitigation steps introduced in by Selectmen and the resultant insufficiency of their response has led sufferers to seek immediate redress in the court of public opinion. The Selectmen, Health and Planning Board’s response has included studies, examination of research and data collection, but has yet to develop an approach to rectify the daily harm distribution upon a small segment of the community. This protocol offers affected residents no redress for the continued harm suffered, nor does it grant the individuals any legal cause of action under which to fight the continued turbine operations.
mark cool
7:54 am on Friday, November 23, 2012
Furthermore, looking to the state/local government for a response leaves affected residents dependent upon who resides on Beacon Hill and who is elected to the various local boards. I applaud the continued efforts of the WTOP, as well as the planning and health boards, but a pronounced theme by Selectmen, has given too much value to financial cost. Citizens, therefore, must continue to beseech the public’s sense of ‘right and wrong’.
Proving harm to health, quality of life and property value has been a costly burden (which include litigation costs) to those residents seeking relief. Some just cannot afford the irreparable harm it has caused, and the family budget is only one dimension to the personal cost.
Marie Jane
9:14 am on Friday, November 23, 2012
Rich Latimer Re: 11/22/2012, 9:09 p.m. With every post you dig a deeper hole, prove beyond doubt that you wear blinders and see no further than the tip of your nose, or the breadth of your opinion. In the Attorney Code of Ethics is it deemed necessary to remind one and all that they have the "right to file lawsuits".You seem consumed with creating an adversarial position rather than admitting a mistake.
Without having done the proper research regarding the installation of industrial wind turbines in residential neighborhoods, the error in good judgement originally and continuously by all complicit in the decision to move forward with the project and their inability, now, to admit to poor judgement fearing legal "reaction" from the developer and other stake holders puts you in defense mode. It was the original poor decision that put the taxpayers of Falmouth in jeopardy not the action of the victimized. So, don't blame them.
You rally against speaking of it as "human rights",yet your advice is to suggest that the victimized pay to defend their human rights because "you" did not defend their or the town of Falmouth's best interest when you made the original decision about placement of the industrial wind turbines.
Stop name calling, stop brow beating, stop taking your wrong decision out on the victimized. Just do the right thing. Shut them down. From where I sit and by your logic, you are very lucky to be living in the U.S. enjoying your human rights.
Blowin Smoke
9:34 pm on Saturday, November 24, 2012
"Wind Turbine Syndrome: mass hysteria in the 21st Century?"
By a professor of public health..
http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/wind-turbine-syndrome-mass-hysteria-21st-century
David KEnt
10:21 pm on Saturday, November 24, 2012
Blowin,
The author of that book is a Pediatrician from upstate New York. Ironically, she's from Fox Hospital in Cooperstown which is very near my hometown. A good country hospital. But Pediatricians from good country hospitals are hardly qualified to comment upon turbine effects. She has no training or credentials that are applicable to evaluating the effect of turbines. The term "Wind Turbine Syndrome" comes from this author. That's not a recognized syndrome, rather, it's something that she coined.
Now I believe the turbine neighbors and I believe that something should be done to help them even if that something is costly to the town. That does not mean, however, that I accept every argument from the anti-turbine side. And the contention that this author is credible in this debate is incorrect.
Blowin Smoke
11:57 am on Sunday, November 25, 2012
David Kent, you are 100% correct - Nina Pierpont is hopelessly biased and unqualified. But the link I sent is NOT to her work. It's an article written by the director of research at Syndey School of Public Health, Sydney University, Australia. He's written over 360 peer-reviewed articles. You should READ it... note he also sent a long letter to the Falmouth Board of Health in May 2012.
http://www.climatespectator.com.au/commentary/wind-turbine-syndrome-mass-hysteria-21st-century
David KEnt
12:26 pm on Sunday, November 25, 2012
Blowin,
Sorry for mixing up the Pierpont thing. But it's worth having said: She's not an authority.
I have read some of the Australian guy's work (at a high level), including his letter to the Falmouth Board. I've spent more time reading the State's survey of wind turbine studies and I've done shallow review of other such surveys. After all of that (not that I've done exhaustive work) here's where I've come out so far:
1. Existing science DOES NOT support the existence of effects of turbines on human health.
2. Existing science provides little evidence of the impact of turbines on human mood, etc. (exception: Sleeping).
3. I still believe the neighbors.
It takes science time to understand things. It is possible for human experience to defy the statistical findings of science (Effects MAY exist even though studies can't find statistically significant differences).
Normally, I adhere strictly to science and evidence. But here, talking to a couple of neighbors for significant periods of time has caused me to take a different course. I readily admit that I can't defend my position with science and evidence. I still waver on this: I could change my mind.
mark cool
7:23 am on Monday, November 26, 2012
David - FYI - International Journal NOISE & HEALTH - peer reviewed support in the article titled 'Effects of industrial wind turbine noise on sleep and health'. (Michael Nissenbaum, Chris Hanning and Jeffery J. Aramin) ~~The adverse events of sleep disturbance and ill health by those living close to IWTs ARE SUPPORTED.~~ see www, noiseandhealth.org (featured -http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121110/NEWS/211100329)
OldTownie
1:58 pm on Friday, December 7, 2012
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByjfQs1P4lPaem9vNHVabmJNOEk/edit?pli=1
mark cool
8:29 am on Monday, November 26, 2012
David - Some more reading / refs / info for the realities of living with industrial wind turbine noise can be found at the Acoustic Ecology Institute : http://www.acousticecology.org/srwind.html I hope you will see when you read this link that they are presenting a fair and balanced information source on the issues. Of all the sites I have seen on wind turbine noise issues, I would highly recommend it for giving an impartial view. Every two years the wind industry, acousticians, MD’s, noise professionals, academics et al all get together for what’s called the International Conference on Wind Turbine Noise. If industrial wind turbine noise was not a problem, why do they have an international two yearly conference on it?
The ref. Blowin repeatedly cites begs the question - I wonder what Chapman's motivation is? it is bizarre that a tobacco lobbyist chooses to focus on this issue. Let alone a lobbyist that is also an academic, and it seems he hasn't properly analysed the papers he cites in his article. In fact, he distorts some of his references! Sloppy stuff.
mark cool
8:32 am on Monday, November 26, 2012
Health Canada cites these peer-reviewed scientific articles indicating that wind turbines may have an adverse impact on human health:
- Keith, S. E., D. S. Michaud, and S. H. P. Bly. 2008. A proposal for evaluating the potential health effects of wind turbine noise for projects under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. Journal of Low Frequency Noise, Vibration and Active Control, 27 : 253-265.
- Michaud, D., S. H. P. Bly, and S. E. Keith. 2008. Using a change in percentage highly annoyed with noise as a potential health effect measure for projects under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. Canadian Acoustics, 36(2): 13-28.
-Pedersen, E., and Halmstad, H. I. 2003. Noise annoyance from wind turbines – a review. Swedish Environmental Protection Agency, Report 5308.
- Pedersen, E. and Persson Waye, K. 2008. Wind turbines – low level noise sources interfering with restoration? Environmental Research Letters, 3: 1-5.
- Pedersen, E., and Persson Waye, K. 2007. Wind turbine noise, annoyance and selfreported health and wellbeing in different living environments. Occup. Environ. Med. 64: 480-486.
- Pedersen E. and Persson Waye, K. 2004. Perception and annoyance due to wind turbine noise – a dose-response relationship. J. Accoust. Soc. Am. 116: 3460-3470. -World Health Organization (WHO). 1999. Guidelines for Community Noise. Eds. B. Berglund, T. Lindvall, D. H. Schwela. WHO: Geneva.
David KEnt
4:56 pm on Monday, November 26, 2012
Mark,
You've collected a bunch of papers that, in you opinion, support your side of this argument. It would be easy to generate a similar list of papers that argue the other way. Finding the truth amongst conflicting sources is above my pay grade (and beyond my available time). That's why credible overview studies of the available science are so important: Like the one produced last May for MassDep which employed a panel of qualified people to review the science and said that Science has found little evidence of turbine effects on humans. In some situations they found very little evidence, in others they found some evidence. As I recall, just about the only area in which the report spoke confidently of impact on humans was upon sleep.
Of course, as science always does, the report relied upon statistics. In order to say that there was a demonstrated impact, data had to show a statistically significant difference. The report pulled its punches consistently via that statistical approach.
So, I think that the science in this are is far from conclusive as to the demonstrated effects of turbines.
But that doesn't mean that there aren't effects. Science may not have caught up yet. Anyway, I think that conversations with neighbors are more important than the science in this case. The neighbors I've talked to are believable. I'm not going to say to them "I don't believe you because science hasn't demonstrated what you're saying using statistics".
mark cool
8:33 am on Tuesday, November 27, 2012
David - I think it clear what those references show (not simply my opinion). This is part of the list being used to launch the Canadian health study of turbine. The implication, similar to that of the Mass DEP/DPH Expert Panel report, is that more research is necessary.
Specific to Falmouth, in my opinion, this position is compelling enough to recognize that our Wind Turbine noise problem quite likely causes community health issues, even if difficult to measure.
The Falmouth problem is an example of non-compliance of noise pollution by operating Wind 1. I use this example because the turbine was specifically accepted by the community (our neighborhood) before construction, and they (State Agencies/Industry Consultants/Town Administration) gave assurances it would not be noisy. That hasn’t been the case once it started operating. The DEP test of Wind 1’s exceedance is the proof. It far from the proof necessary to determine to what extent of non-compliance, rather, it's an indication that other exceedances/violations are very likely.
The implication of what is required (until further statistical proof is available) seems obvious. It’s a shame the issue has so many doubting Thomas’s, and/or those more willing to perpetrate continued harm because it’s too costly to protect neighbors from further risks of harm.
David KEnt
5:24 pm on Tuesday, November 27, 2012
Mark,
I wonder: What is the typical attitude of a Town Meeting member voting against shutting the turbines off? I’ll speculate, but I’d be interested in what you think.
I’d say that the attitude of the typical “no” Town Meeting voter is as follows:
1. He/she doesn’t believe you guys. He/she thinks that you’re making a mountain out a mole hill.
2. He/she is concerned about the hole that shutting the turbines down would put in the town budget.
I’d also say that there a very few TM members who believe you’re suffering greatly BUT still vote against shut down.
Thoughts?
mark cool
2:11 pm on Wednesday, November 28, 2012
David,
Your assessment concerning whether TM voters believe the ill effected neighbors has me somewhat confounded. I understand your point, but would question your assertion that that very few TM members believe we’re suffering greatly. Obviously there is a portion of voters that think we’re liars. However, the past spring town meeting’s vote upheld a conditional shut-down of the turbines. I believe this is telling. TM members believed we we’re suffering at that time. This gives me hope that people remain sympathetic and that they want to provide the relief we seek. Theses two TMs behind us, I’m left to conclude that many spring TM voters, still having our best ‘wellness’ interests at heart, became inclined to focus on what you implied regarding the town budget. This time, being the fiduciary government body, those TM voters gave priority to the town’s fiscal health, rather than it’s community health. The community’s health, after all, is the responsibility of the health board.
Though disappointed with the outcome, and trying to be objective, I believe TM voters did what they had to do. Bringing me to my thought I’ve always felt. The solution to this health problem, not at all unlike an emergency boil water order, cannot be steered by politics. Rather, the designated government body having authority to decide courses of action during an immediate community health problem, should rest only with the board of health.
mark cool
2:12 pm on Wednesday, November 28, 2012
David -The question I would pose, given the May 24 testimonials, weight of similar world wide anecdotal stories, and the growing body of effect specific scientific evidence offering plausibility to the harm, would you shut them off? Removing all the politics involved, would you urge the board of health to err on the side of caution? Thoughts?
mark cool
2:13 pm on Wednesday, November 28, 2012
David,
Your assessment concerning whether TM voters believe the ill effected neighbors has me somewhat confounded. I understand your point, but would question your assertion that that very few TM members believe we’re suffering greatly. Obviously there is a portion of voters that think we’re liars. However, the past spring town meeting’s vote upheld a conditional shut-down of the turbines. I believe this is telling. TM members believed we we’re suffering at that time. This gives me hope that people remain sympathetic and that they want to provide the relief we seek. Theses two TMs behind us, I’m left to conclude that many spring TM voters, still having our best ‘wellness’ interests at heart, became inclined to focus on what you implied regarding the town budget. This time, being the fiduciary government body, those TM voters gave priority to the town’s fiscal health, rather than it’s community health. The community’s health, after all, is the responsibility of the health board.
Though disappointed with the outcome, and trying to be objective, I believe TM voters did what they had to do. Bringing me to my thought I’ve always felt. The solution to this health problem, not at all unlike an emergency boil water order, cannot be steered by politics. Rather, the designated government body having authority to decide courses of action during an immediate community health problem, should rest only with the board of health.
mark cool
2:42 pm on Wednesday, November 28, 2012
David - Your response to my comments may be something like - “it’s just not as simple as Mark’s tried to portray.” I respect that. However, the night-time curtailment has been introduced to allow for uninterrupted resident’s sleep periods. We can agree, sleep is essential to human health?
I'm going to mixing health and politics (only to raise a point). The WTOP consultants reporting on night curtailments and project fiscal stability, briefed that the town wind project will “bleed to death” if forced to shut down either wind turbine for any portion of the over night period beyond 5 hours. I'll go out on a limb here and hedge a bet that 8 hours is the customary sleep period understood to be healthy. If you were a TM voter, and had you been presented this information, would you have voted to “amputate”?
Blowin Smoke
8:19 pm on Wednesday, November 28, 2012
MA DEP/DPH Independant Expert Science Panel, press release 1/17/12:
http://www.mass.gov/dep/public/press/0112wind.htm
Excerpt:
There is no evidence for a set of health effects from exposure to wind turbines that could be characterized as a "Wind Turbine Syndrome."
Claims that infrasound from wind turbines directly impacts the vestibular system have not been demonstrated scientifically. Available evidence shows that the infrasound levels near wind turbines cannot impact the vestibular system.
The weight of the evidence suggests no association between noise from wind turbines and measures of psychological distress or mental health problems.
None of the limited epidemiological evidence reviewed suggests an association between noise from wind turbines and pain and stiffness, diabetes, high blood pressure, tinnitus, hearing impairment, cardiovascular disease, and headache/migraine.
David KEnt
9:29 pm on Wednesday, November 28, 2012
Yes Blowin. I reviewed the MassDEP study when it came out last January and posted that review in my blog:
http://www.capecodtoday.com/news/headlines/2012/01/19/wind-turbine-study
I went through the study and pulled out each of its conclusions (which were scattered throughout) and summarized them in a table. As you say, and as I said back then, the people who conducted the study found that almost all of the scientific studies on the effects of turbines “pulled their punches”. That is, they found that the data supported VERY FEW (I any) measurable effects on humans.
Back then, I also reviewed – at a high level – a couple other survey studies (ones that surveyed the available science) and they too pulled their punches. That was a very ad hoc exercise, however.
So, unless things have changed greatly over 10 months, the science on turbine effects on humans doesn’t appear generally to point to measurable effects of turbines on humans.
But I still believe the neighbors. So I must conclude (and have) that there ARE effects that have not yet been identified yet by the scientific studies.
mark cool
7:52 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012
David - Not to say you need further convincing, this is the latest peer-reviewed study demonstrating that industrial wind turbines have a direct and serious adverse impact upon sleep and health, both physical and mental http://www.noiseandhealth.org/article.asp?issn=1463-1741;year=2012;volume=14;issue=60;spage=237;epage=243;aulast=Nissenbaum.
The “Wind Turbine Health Impact Study: Report of Independent Expert Panel,” cited five peer-reviewed studies, upon which it relied. The most recent - Shepherd, D., McBride, D., Welch, D., Dirks, K. N., & Hill, E. M., “Evaluating the impact of wind turbine noise on health-related quality of life”, Noise Health, 2011. It’s odd, given this study’s finding that industrial wind turbine (IWT) noise contributes to sleep disorders and diseases associated with the serious adverse responses to the low frequency impulses generated by the IWTs, that the study’s conclusions have been so mischaracterized, especially when the “Expert Panel’s” recommendation was suggesting further study was necessary.
It would seem ‘caution’ has been abandon by many, so that other pressed agendas (political or otherwise) do not suffer interruption.
Bill Carson
6:42 pm on Friday, November 30, 2012
The Air Force Civil Engineer Center at Otis Air Force Base is making the claim that the 1.5 MW Fuhrlaender (FL-1577) installed in 2009 does not have a failure ?
They have known since January that the bearings and gears of the three year old wind turbine have lots of metal in the gear box. Turbines of the same megawatt size have failed inn Portsmouth ,Rhode Island and Princeton, Massachusetts .
The wind industry is hiding a dirty little secret about gear box failures in three to five year old turbines !
Can we trust a federal government agency that tells the public it has a wind turbine that isn't breaking down ? While on the other hand they ordered a new gear box for the turbine just in case .
The government doesn't know the replacement cost ? It's 700 thousand for the gear box ,150 thousand for the crane and blade inspection close to a one million dollar repair !
They are telling the public it's not broken ? Can we trust our government ?
David KEnt
6:55 pm on Friday, November 30, 2012
Can you provide references for the failures you site and for the costs of repair?
OldTownie
1:57 pm on Friday, December 7, 2012
The Town of Portsmouth does know the cost and it is nowhere near what Bill Carson is quoting. He likes to make up facts.
Bill Carson
7:24 pm on Friday, November 30, 2012
Portysmouth Rhode Island Wind Turbine Failure
http://www.wind-watch.org/documents/gearbox-failure-investigation/print/
Gearbox Failure Investigation
Roberts, Don
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
The town of Portsmouth, Rhode Island (Portsmouth) commissioned a new AAER 1500-77-65 1.5 Megawatt wind turbine on March 24, 2009. On May 18, 2012, significant amounts of metal were found in the gearbox oil filter housing and significant internal damage was observed with a borescope. The filter element was replaced on May 25, and the turbine was returned to service. The turbine was removed from service on June 18, 2012 after significant additional metal was discovered in the filter housing.
The Portsmouth wind turbine gearbox has suffered a significant, premature failure of the first and second planetary stages. The gearbox must be replaced in order to return the turbine to service.
Bill Carson
7:28 pm on Friday, November 30, 2012
http://docs.wind-watch.org/Portsmouth_RI_Turbine_Gearbox.pdf
See page 19 table two for repair costs
Subtotal, gearbox replacement cost (non-‐recurring) $695,200
Also add special crane costs
OldTownie
1:55 pm on Friday, December 7, 2012
The crane cost was included in the bid, and you know it.
Bill Carson
7:32 pm on Friday, November 30, 2012
Tuesday Nov 27
While I appreciate everyone's interest in the success of wind energy, I feel I must clear up the issues associated with the Otis Air National Guard Base wind turbine located at the MA Military Reservation. The owner/operator of the Otis ANG Base wind turbine is the Air Force Civil Engineer Center (AFCEC). Our name changed from Air Force Center for Engineering and the Environment (AFCEE) on 01 Oct 2012 after a reorganization. I am the project manager for the operation of our pump and treat systems, the plume cleanup, and the three 1.5 MW wind turbines installed by AFCEC/AFCEE at MMR. We have one 1.5 MW Fuhrlaender (FL-1577) wind turbine and two 1.5 MW GE wind turbines at MMR. We installed the wind turbines to offset the costs and environmental impact associated with our cleanup program.
The FL-1577 started operating on 02 Dec 2009. The GE turbines started opeating on 03 Nov 2011. Regarding the FL-1577 gearbox, it HAS NOT failed. We noticed some metal flakes in the gearbox oil this past January and had a borescope inspection done. The inspection showed pitting of the gear teeth caused by pressing the metal flakes between the teeth. The problem component in the gearbox appears to be a bearing. Based on Fuhrlaender's recommendation, we are continuing to run the wind turbine while we work on procuring a new gearbox that has a different/better bearing.
David KEnt
7:47 pm on Friday, November 30, 2012
I don't know, Bill, that 2 failures point to the industry wide trend that you're claiming. And, of course, our turbines are from Vestas. Neither of the failed turbines are from that manufacturer.
Bill Carson
11:19 am on Saturday, December 1, 2012
Danish manufacturer Vestas’ plans to turn around its financial performance have been hit by a fault affecting large numbers of gearboxes supplied by Hansen Transmissions (now part of German-owned ZF Friedrichshafen) for its V90 3MW wind turbines.
Related Stories
* Offshore strategy intact despite 7MW delay, insists Vestas
* Vestas admits 'disappointing' Q1 as fault hits 376 turbines
* Vestas hires ex-Vattenfall man Andresen as CFO
The news came as a shock to analysts amid worse-than-expected financial results and could significantly damage Vestas’ reputation. Chief executive Ditlev Engel described the issue, which was detected by Vestas’ own performance diagnostic centre and affects 376 turbines it sold between June 2009 and September 2011 — including 36 offshore — as a “very nasty surprise”.
http://www.rechargenews.com/energy/wind/article312711.ece
Bill Carson
11:16 am on Saturday, December 1, 2012
"One of the biggest concerns remaining in the wind industry is the reliability of the gearbox. 'With our current wind turbine fleet currently going out of warranty period, we estimate that we are carrying a potential risk on gearboxes of about US$300 million. Failures are still relatively rare these days because our fleet is recent, but we expect this will change dramatically as our wind turbines approach their 5–7 years of operation. Our concern is such that we are even considering acquiring a company with gearbox servicing capabilities.'
This statement from a large US wind farm operator is far from being an isolated case in an industry that will see over 8000 MW of wind farm capacity go out of the warranty period every year in the US alone in the next few years."
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/06/wind-turbine-gearbox-reliability
David KEnt
2:50 pm on Saturday, December 1, 2012
OK Bill, this gear box thing will be something to keep an eye on.
I'm not sure that it is very important to the debate over the Falmouth turbines, however, where the main issues seem to me to be:
a. Whether or not one believes the objecting neighbors
b. The relative importance of protecting the neighbors and protecting the town budget.
Well, I can think of one way in which the gear box issue might affect that discussion: If we keep the turbines to benefit the town budget, that budget might take a huge hit anyway at some point via a gearbox failure.
Anyway, thanks for the sources.
OldTownie
1:54 pm on Friday, December 7, 2012
Bill Carson is a shill for a Koch Bros funded anti-wind website.
Ask him, I dare ya.